Innovation and Rediscovering an Entrepreneurial Spirit in Organizations with Danny Nathan

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Business Chop podcast, where our guests speak on meeting the challenges of entrepreneurship as well as offer tips and advice on business, marketing, technology and more. Whether you are a newbie or seasoned professional, this episode is for you. I am

[00:00:18] your host, Audrey Wiggins. Let's chop it up. Hello again, Chop Squad. Hello, Audrey. I am excited to be with you. Our guest today is Danny Nathan. He is the founder of Apollo 21. I can't wait for him to unpack the name of his business. It is

[00:00:46] a unique company that sits at the intersection of a management consultancy, product design studio and venture studio. Apollo 21 helps clients foster transformational growth through new venture creation, new product development and the formation of internal venture building

[00:01:05] operations. In doing so, they help organizations rediscover an entrepreneurial spirit and establish a culture of innovation. Now we will hear more from Danny on the other side of this message. July 27th is National Love is Kind Day. Show some love for your business.

[00:01:24] Nurture it, grow it and watch it flourish. Register now for Elevating the You in Entrepreneur Summit. Learn more at bit.ly slash elevate the letter U July 2024. Bit.ly slash elevate the letter U July 2024. We're back with Danny Nathan. Danny, welcome to the Business

[00:01:44] Chop. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, awesome. Glad you're here. As we're chopping up this ice, let's start off with some fun facts, some things that maybe some of us don't know about you. You want to share a couple

[00:01:58] of those with us? Yeah, absolutely. Most folks don't know that I started my career in advertising and before that I was highly focused on acting and sort of found my way into the world of entrepreneurship and startups and technology. But much to

[00:02:16] the chagrin of my mother who was always questioning my decision to study acting, it has proven to be absolutely invaluable throughout my career. And so, yeah, it's something that I lean on all the time. Yes, definitely. And then coming up with

[00:02:31] commercials and quips and quotes that I'm sure the acting is definitely, you know, coming handy and even just showing up in meetings. Sometimes that that's hard. You know, honestly, that's one of the biggest points of impact for me

[00:02:44] is the ability to stand up in a room full of people, be it a small room or a large one, and just sort of have my faculties around myself is one of the greatest things that I've taken from my experience in acting.

[00:02:56] Absolutely. So everyone, Chop Squad, go out and enroll yourself in an acting career. If you really want to dive in, you should try improv. Right. Oh, oh, my goodness, that would be fun. So scary, but but fun for sure.

[00:03:11] Absolutely. I want to just come off the first question kind of tag on the last part of the intro there about entrepreneurship, the spirit, spirit of entrepreneurialism rather. And so why is it important for organizations to rediscover an entrepreneurial spirit? And, you know, how does that bring about

[00:03:28] positive change and growth? Yeah, that's a great question, Audrey. I think that a lot of organizations, especially as they find product market fit and begin to focus on scale or have reached scale, begin to optimize their businesses around the

[00:03:43] processes that are working for them today. And in doing so, you can't help but start to lose some of the the fire behind what got you started. And so I'm a firm believer that every company starts out at some point as a

[00:03:56] disruptive startup. And it's just kind of inevitable that as we grow, we start to function more in a process oriented fashion and less around experimentation and exploration. And so, to me, that is what kind of leads to that diminishing of the entrepreneurial spirit and the need to

[00:04:15] rediscover a culture of innovation and a sense of innovation within an organization. I love this this thing about entrepreneurial spirit. I've worked in organizations, you know, Fortune 500 or 100 organizations, and they always talked about even though the you know, the owner or is like far, far,

[00:04:36] far removed from organization of that size, they may have several divisions or there are several division presidents and vice presidents, marketing, R&D, and all you know, all the way down, down the line to manufacturing. And they always talked about that entrepreneurial spirit.

[00:04:54] And they value that in employees. So how does that how does how does an organization rediscover that? It really comes down to a top down decision in my mind. So there has to be permission given from the C suite, the executives, the folks at

[00:05:10] the top for people within their organization to feel like they have a freedom and to establish a culture of experimentation, and ultimately to have the opportunity to try something and fail without having to be concerned about repercussions. And there is a ton of research that has

[00:05:28] proven that in organizations where folks feel like they have that permission and that ability to experiment to try things and to focus on achieving the overarching strategy as opposed to being, you know, as

[00:05:41] we often like to say a cog in a system that is just there to execute something over and over again, that you will see far greater success across that organization. And by allowing for that entrepreneurial spirit to become part of the culture, you create a happier workplace,

[00:05:57] you create more productive employees, and ultimately, you have a greater impact on your bottom line as well. And so it's really a win win across the board, but it's a really tough thing to operationalize. Yeah, absolutely. But I like that. Good answer, too, by the way,

[00:06:13] because we can even small organizations, I think we can grab a hold of that as well. Because I think we sometimes could probably get bogged down. Or it's just, you know, I got a local guy,

[00:06:23] I got to get on make the budget, I'd give this and this and and whatever things that we do. So we get we caught up in we're just go back into his employee mindset. And then we have this

[00:06:32] team of energetic people, you know, working with us. And it's like, okay, so let's get let's get back to the basics of, you know, how we got started and bring that excitement and new energy. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I love that. So, so

[00:06:48] so with that, then how did Apollo get started? Apollo 21? Apollo 21 got started kind of opportunistically. In my last role, I was serving as head of product for a video technology startup in LA. And about two years into our journey, we took

[00:07:06] on outside funding from a family office. And one of the stipulations that funding round was that we help some of their other portfolio companies with their technology efforts. And so I sort of found myself in a dual role where I was not

[00:07:19] only serving my own organization and my own company, but then also kind of running a SWAT team out of these other organizations to help them explore where technology could help streamline their operations could have an impact on their business and to help them

[00:07:34] understand where technology could really play a role that it wasn't at that point. And after doing that for about a year, both my founders and a couple of folks from the family office tapped me on the shoulder and just sort of

[00:07:46] said, Hey, you seem to be pretty excited about this. You know, do you want to go and pursue it? And that led to the creation of Apollo 21 back in April of 2021. And we've been making a go of it ever since.

[00:07:59] That's awesome that they would even look at that to you know, to and I guess analogy would be to you know, push the little birdie out of the nest and let you Yes. Yes, I got a swift kick right out of the net. But it

[00:08:12] was, it was with the utmost of respect. And I really do appreciate their willingness in their, their ability to note that opportunity for me and to encourage me to run after it. Yeah, absolutely. I really applaud them for that for

[00:08:27] sure. What does it take to run a company at the intersection of your do management consulting, product design, your venture studio? It seems like a lot. It is a lot, but it really all ties closely together in my

[00:08:42] mind. So basically what it comes down to is our work falls into two buckets. And that's work that we do for clients, which generally focuses on helping them either create a new product, build a new company, so a new venture from within their own organization, or create some

[00:08:59] sort of technology that solves a core problem for them. And then the other side of our business is effectively doing the exact same thing but for ourselves. So we launch companies that we own and run entirely, and we work with

[00:09:11] other organizations to do the same thing. So while it sounds like a mouthful, it really ends up kind of aligning in terms of activity and pursuits on the day to day. That being said, it requires tenacity and determination is really what it comes down to.

[00:09:27] Yeah, absolutely. But it creates momentum. It keeps things fresh and new for you so you don't get bored. Exactly. Exactly. And that's one of the things that I really enjoy about the type of work that we do is every client brings a different opportunity and a different

[00:09:41] problem to solve to the table for us. And so we find ourselves learning about all sorts of different industries and different verticals with each new client that we take on. And we've done work across security and remote guarding, across financial services. We've done work with

[00:09:57] restaurant brands. We've done work in the rodeo space of all things, which most people do not associate with technology, but we had a ton of fun with that project. And so it really does keep things fresh and keep things interesting.

[00:10:10] So how does, you talk about the technology piece, is that hard for you to get businesses to get a mindset? Or is there a shift where they just come in ready and just tell us what we need to do? It's actually not terribly difficult to convince them

[00:10:27] that they need the technology. A lot of our clients come to us today, either because they have a problem or because they're seeking what we often refer to as transformational growth opportunities. And if it's a problem that they're seeking, a lot of times our

[00:10:41] clients know that technology can help them in some way. But these clients don't come from a technology space usually. We're not often working with companies that have their own software engineering teams that have their own product and design teams. Instead, we're

[00:10:54] working with companies, as I mentioned, that are in a variety of other spaces and they inevitably they understand the value of technology today. I don't think you can run a business without thinking about how technology impacts your operations and

[00:11:08] how you serve customers. But they often come to us and say, hey, we have this problem. We know technology can help, but we're not the technology people. Help us figure out how to architect it and then how to execute it so that

[00:11:20] it serves the needs that that will make an impact for our customers and for our business. How does the organization know that they need to to be more innovative? Or maybe I'm not asking that correctly. No, I'm following. I'm following. There is a

[00:11:35] lot of work in terms of helping to educate people on why innovation doesn't feel like it works today. You hear a lot of corporations that are talking about being innovation focused and you also hear a lot of companies and organizations talking about innovation theater.

[00:11:52] And the reality is that I think most organizations today understand that innovation is key to their future, to their growth and to maintaining forward momentum and discovering new opportunities. But the problem is that innovation is really difficult to execute on, especially as companies get larger because as

[00:12:11] companies grow and they begin to optimize their operations around conservation of capital, around efficiency and around risk management, they are effectively limiting their own ability to be innovative and to pursue innovation. And so when we talk about these things, we look at the challenges that

[00:12:29] companies are facing across kind of two categories. There's executional challenges, which larger organizations tend to be very good at executing on and pursuing. And then there's learning challenges. And it's the learning challenges where companies as they grow tend to struggle to maintain an understanding

[00:12:47] and a process internally for how to pursue that type of learning so that they understand where opportunities might sit in the future. So what is innovation? That's elementary. Yeah, that's the that's the big question in all of this. Innovation, in my mind,

[00:13:06] is a pursuit of new products, new opportunities, new services and ultimately new business models that can serve an organization in determining how they're going to become future proof. As I said, a lot of companies focus on the now, they focus on quarterly goals and

[00:13:27] they focus on what's going to happen in the next three, six, nine months. But when you think about innovation, what you're really kind of digging into is the the idea of longevity within an organization. Innovation is what ultimately keeps companies relevant and keeps them in touch

[00:13:43] with the opportunities that are coming to bear in the market, be that new technologies or new customer needs, things that might align to the work that they do today or fall just outside of that work, but provide really interesting opportunities for discovering growth and maintaining relevance across their

[00:14:03] customer group. As far as your team goes, what's your process for developing new products and ventures? It varies slightly from client to client, depending on the needs. But generally what will happen is we will start with some sort of discovery process that generally lasts four to six

[00:14:20] weeks. And that's our opportunity. I say our Apollo 21 opportunity to really dig in and to understand the business that our client is in, because as a as a third party, you know, we don't generally maintain an expertise in the world of rodeo, for

[00:14:37] example. And so we need that educational opportunity so that we can bring a subjective, subjective, objective, pardon me, view towards. Yeah, I imagine there's some subjective aspects to that as well. I probably have to have to admit to that. But we bring an objective view,

[00:14:56] a third party view towards their business and what they're trying to accomplish and really help them see the world with fresh eyes while we are learning about and understanding the ins and outs of their business and the core problem that they have brought to us. And then generally

[00:15:12] the output of that discovery process is some sort of what we often refer to as a build plan. But even that is a little bit, a little bit narrow because what we really tend to focus on coming out of that is the opportunities for customer development and how

[00:15:30] we're going to spend time understanding the underlying customer needs behind the problem or opportunity that we have been brought in to help with and then allowing that discovery and development process to shape the definition of whatever it is we're going to work with that client

[00:15:46] to create. So we spend a lot of time interviewing customers, interviewing internal stakeholders, understanding the needs and demands of the business. And then we use the discovery that comes out of that process to really shape a thing, an offering, whatever that's going to be that comes next.

[00:16:04] And once we get to that point, we operate on a crawl, walk, run principle. So we focus very highly on finding the smallest, most impactful thing that we can create and deploy to market that will mitigate risk, that will generate insights or that will

[00:16:25] give customers an opportunity to react so that we can then continue that iterative learning process and over time begin to shape whatever that product offering looks like. What time frame or when does an organization know that it's time to launch a new product?

[00:16:41] Is it part of the business plan? Probably it is, but and develop new businesses. There's two answers to that, Audrey. The first or most simple I think would be, well, when you start to see some sort of slowdown in your current business model, it's a pretty

[00:16:57] clear indicator that it's time to start pursuing something new. That being said, there's also a strong argument to be made that if you are waiting until the point where you're seeing a slowdown in your business model, you've waited way too long. I was going to say something

[00:17:11] about that. I'm like, is it too late? It's hit that point. It is scrambling. Yeah, exactly. It's arguably not too late. And I think that no matter where you are in the process, there is an opportunity to begin focusing on innovation. But to your point, I would

[00:17:25] argue that the sooner you begin thinking about it, the better, because as we talked about earlier, the idea of innovation and the idea of that entrepreneurial spirit really comes down to a cultural shift as much as it does a shift in business model and business offering.

[00:17:40] And so the sooner you can establish that kind of cultural mentality around discovery, experimentation and learning, the the greater foundation you will have for those opportunities for innovation. And ultimately what we see is that companies that are focused on that type of learning often find the opportunities for

[00:18:01] innovation much sooner and have the opportunity to experiment and to develop an understanding of that customer need so far in advance that it really removes the scrambling that you're talking about and gives them a much more even killed opportunity. There you lose that kind of

[00:18:21] rush moment of, oh, God, we have to change something and we have to change it now because you've been prepping for it all along. Right, right. OK, I was like a newsroom stop the process. Exactly. Yeah, you want to avoid that stop the process moment

[00:18:35] because as soon as that stop the process moment happens, then then you know you've got a problem. You know, at that point, everybody's aware that you're playing catch up. Right. Knock out your competition with altogether marketing. We elevate your brand. Take a stance with your business name, logo,

[00:18:51] the tagline, your colors, even the fonts for your business and then jab left with your website. Jab right with core values back up with product experience and bring it on with you. This is altogether that is and let us help you create a knockout brand.

[00:19:11] What advice or what nuggets would you want to leave the audience with? I have two that I I generally share, both of which ring ring true for me. The first is very simple. It will take longer than you think. And it doesn't matter what it is.

[00:19:28] It will take longer than you think. In my hurry up and wait. Yes, exactly. In my experience, no matter if you're launching a startup or if you're an organization that is looking to cultivate change internally, it's always better to start now because it will always

[00:19:44] take a little bit longer than you expect and require more work than you think it will. So that's kind of my I don't want to say Pat answer, but that's my quick response. My other that is a little bit more in depth boils down to a personal

[00:19:58] mantra that I have, which is fail beautifully. And to me, that is a constant reminder that without the opportunity for failure in a safe space, without the opportunity for failure, without repercussion, you're not going to go anywhere because inevitably as you are looking to learn

[00:20:17] and as you are experimenting, you will fail. And the more we can help people understand that failure is not a bad thing, which is difficult because that's something that has been ingrained since we've all been children. You know, if you've failed, there's a lack of success.

[00:20:32] You didn't win. You came in second. You came in last. Whatever it is, failure is bad. And in a rather contrarian view, I think failure is a learning opportunity. Every time we fail, you know, for to kind of pull from the the Thomas Edison idea or was it

[00:20:47] Einstein, whichever, you know, it's it's I've learned a thousand things that didn't work. And so now I know what to try next. And so I'm a huge proponent of embracing failure by jumping in with both feet and just knowing that it's going to happen along the way

[00:21:03] and that it doesn't mean that you're bad at what you do or that, you know, you don't deserve to keep going. It just means that you've had opportunities to learn. And the only point of failure in that is ignoring those opportunities. So at this point, so how

[00:21:19] can we get in touch with you or, you know, what is it that you would, you know, want to to offer to the CHAP Squad? Yeah, absolutely. So we're easy to find at Apollo 21. I know we have a ton of case studies and articles

[00:21:35] and white papers on our website that I would encourage people to take a look at. I personally tend to be rather active on LinkedIn. I am blah, blah, blah, slash among many on LinkedIn and on most social platforms. And then as far as an offer

[00:21:51] goes, you know, I mentioned earlier that we build our own products and services and one of our more recent launches is a product called Meeting Cost Calculator, which does exactly what it sounds like it does. I know it's potentially confusing, but it is an insights driven

[00:22:07] and data driven dashboard that helps managers understand how their team is spending their meeting time. And it is up and running for folks that are running on both Google and Outlook. There is a free trial associated with it. But also anybody who's listening would like an

[00:22:23] extended free trial. Please just reach out to me and I would be more than happy to get that set up for you. Make sure that you get onboarded appropriately. And we always love to hear from folks that are trying the platform out because feedback is what

[00:22:35] helps us make it better. Yeah, absolutely. But then that's near on the edge of innovation right there. Well, with Danny, if there is nothing else, there is anything else that we need to cover today. This has been this has been real exciting and in-depth, you know, for me

[00:22:50] and the CHOP squads, we can go out there and really make some, you know, some changes. Awesome. I'm glad to hear it. I'm glad that I'm glad that something I've said might be useful, so I appreciate that. But no, I think that covers everything from my perspective.

[00:23:03] OK, well, thank you again. And CHOP squad, you have your marching orders. Definitely check out that meeting cost calculator. But even more than that, think about ways that you can innovate your operations right now and make some changes and come up with some new products and new ideas

[00:23:20] because we can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting, you know, I believe we call that insanity. And you got the last word. Perfect. Thank you for listening to another episode of The Business CHOP. It is my hope that you were able

[00:23:36] to glean usable information from today's episode and that you will download and share this podcast. Be sure to plug into our guests, go through their website and social media channels to see how they can help you further through their products and services, as well as plug

[00:23:51] into our website, alltogether.biz, where we will help you expand your brand.